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Home » Categories » Home Life » Marriage » A Wife’s Submission To Her Husband » Reprint Rights » Printer Friendly

Angie Lewis

A Wife’s Submission To Her Husband

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Submitted Friday, May 18, 2007
Angie Lewis (13,797)
Angie Lewis

Heaven Ministries
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Some Christian wives tell me they have a difficult time submitting to their husband because he is behaving inappropriately, either through controlling behavior or demanding submission, or other ungodly activities. If this is the case, I must admit that it would be difficult to submit to this kind of authority. After all, many of these women go on to tell me they thought they married a man of God, not a Hitler.
 
Fortunately, God knew that this would happen from time to time, and so He left us with appropriate instructions on how to handle this kind of marital difficulty. First of all before we get into what appropriate action to take, wives should identify the consistency of this kind of behavior, and then try and figure out what she can do to rectify the situation from happening. 
 
Does your husband behave controlling only some of the time, all of the time, or only once in awhile? The reason she needs to identify the consistency of his behavior is simple, really. If a man consistently demands that his wife submit to him, than he has his own spiritual issues that need attended to before he can actually think that his wife should submit to his tyrant behavior.  Issues within ourselves are what keep us from loving one another in the proper ways.
 
If he behaves controlling only some of the time, then maybe he is truly trying to do the will of God. And in that case a wife should try and be supportive to her husband, and maybe even look at herself to see if she may be doing something that would cause him to feel out of control in his position as head of the home. Or he may be going through an emotionally stressful time in his life, and only needs to feel reassured about something. These kinds of issues in marriage need talked out in proper communication. It takes two to tango, meaning both husband and wife should be willing to look at the reasons why a husband would be acting demanding to his wife. If a husband only gets controlling and demanding once in awhile, then I would tend to believe there is probably good reason for his spiritual protection over his wife.

One problem I see is that many Christian women hang around with other single and unbelieving women at work, and they tend to adapt to each other’s philosophy and beliefs, even trying to conform to worldly standards and remain a Christian. For instance, a Christian woman may hear how much fun it is to go out dancing in bars from her unbelieving friends, and believes she is missing out on some fun. When she goes home she has a difficult time submitting to her husband when he says he doesn’t want her to go out dancing in bars with friends. Or her friends tell her how they boss their husband around and would never ever submit to their husband in a million years! Hello! Do not be unevenly yoked with unbelievers!
 
A husband may see his role as head of the family a bit differently than his wife. Most Christian husband’s who take their position seriously may protect their wives from outside influences with great authority, while she may take his behavior as demanding or controlling. Great discernment and godly wisdom is needed here, not forgetting to pray about it together, so you may both understand what is the proper way to lead and the proper way to submit. If either spouse fail to commit to the purpose set out for them by God, there will be troubles such as described above.
 
On the other hand, if a husband is often taking advantage of his leadership position than I tend to believe he is an unbeliever using the scripture for his own gain. And if that were the case God has specific instructions for that. 
 
And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified by his believing wife…  (1 Corinthians 7:13-14 NIV)
 
Many times in such circumstances a Christian wife finds her strength through the power of Christ in her life and she can remain married and sometimes her husband may even become a believer. This is what God intends for marriage, but it may not happen in all marriages.
 
In a healthy marriage both husband and wife submit to each other but the husband is the main spiritual leader. A woman who is sure of herself and is made to feel good about who she is will not have a problem submitting to her husband’s loving influence.
 
Submit to one another out of reverence to Christ. (Ephesians 5:21 NIV)
 
Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. (Ephesians 5:22-24 NIV)
 
Jesus Christ submitted His will to the Father, and Christian’s are to honor Christ’s example. So then this is how a wife is to submit to her husband. If she does not submit to her husband, then she is not honoring Christ or His example He left for us to follow. 
 
To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example that you should follow in his steps. (1 Peter 2:21 NIV)


Angie Lewis is the author of five marriage books. Her style of writing focuses on the biblical foundations that God outlines for an exceptional marriage.

Love The Man You Married and Love The Woman You Married are great teaching tools for husband and wife to read together and then reflect upon. To preview or buy these books go here. http://www.lulu.com/AngieLewis

Journey on the Roads Less Traveled takes the reader on a spiritual journey towards spiritual awareness and forgiveness It talks about the author's own plight of overcoming alcohol addiction, coming to Christ and saving her marriage. To preview this inspirational book please see the marriage ministry. http://www.heavenministries.com


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Comments on this article:


» left by JL from US (2 years 183 days ago.)
Reader Rating: 3.5 out of 5
I don't know that I know what you mean in your fourth paragraph. It sounds like you are saying that the woman may be responsible for her husbands behavior. Will you clarify?
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» left by Angie Lewis (13,733)
Angie Lewis
(2 years 182 days ago.)

Dear JL,
I can see how the article may have needed clarification. I have edited the article. Thanks for bringing that up to my attention. If you have any other questions, don't hesitate to ask.
Blessings,
Angie Lewis
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» left by Mark Parsec (15,541)
Mark Parsec
(2 years 138 days ago.)

Reader Rating: 5 out of 5
Well done, Angie. I commend you. And congratulations on your sobriety and relationship with Jesus Christ.
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» left by Angie Lewis (13,733)
Angie Lewis
(2 years 138 days ago.)

Thank you for your encouraging comments. God bless you!
Angie
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» left by Anonymous from Florida (2 years 110 days ago.)
My husband is very controlling. I really do love him, but following his rules is difficult. I'm not allowed to wear bras, deodarant, make up, shirts with sleeves, pants, shoes that hide my feet, panties, nail polish, i could go on and on. I can't even shave! He says this is what he thinks beuatiful is. But then when we go out he looks at other women! And they shave and wear bras and everything else! I submit because i think it will please him, were not hillbillies, i'm confused. If i don't follow the rules he gets upset and yells at me. He cries and doesn't get over it until the situation is fixed, the way he wants. So if i don't give in there is no happiness. I don't know what else to say.
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» left by Angie Lewis (13,733)
Angie Lewis
(127 days 6 hours ago.)

Unfortunately some husband's take their position as protector very seriously and it comes across as controlling and demanding. Most husband's are really only trying to protect their wives from outside "lookers" and "flirtatious" advances and go way overboard about their wives dolling themselves up with makeup and nail polish. It is a form of protection that is overdone. Is he protecting or controlling?

The not allowing you to wear a bra or shave seems to me that he likes the natural ways of the female body. Did you know that many Italian men don't want their wives to shave either. It is a preference thing. There is nothing in the bible that states a woman cannot shave under her arms or her legs...these are issues that you must resolve with your husband without interference from anyone. Pray about this and ask God to give you the right words to talk with your husband and tell him how you feel. Be assertive about how you feel, but be respectful.

These kinds of preferences I feel are very personal and are not something that I have any right to barge in on. the bible says that a man "should love his wife" the way Jesus loves his church (us) and so I will use that as an example. Is your husband loving you and making you first in his life? Does your husband place God first in his life and submit to His will? If he is not than he is abusing his position and that is not right. Your husband needs to know that this is very harmful to the marriage. Abusing his  position is not going to make for a very happy marriage, that is for sure. You both need healing and proper guidance on what submission is supposed to be in marriage.

Please go back to the website - Heaven Ministries and on the home page I have posted two marriage articles on submission in marriage that will offer you some more advice for both of you in your marriage. Please have your husband read these articles with you.

Blessings,
Angie

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» left by Jane from Florida (40 days 16 hours ago.)
I am in a traditional marriage and my husband has strict rules about how I may dress. As for shaving he is just the opposite. I have to keep all my hair shaved completely everywhere except my head of course. I have long blond hair. I think a wife shouldn't question a husband's decision on things like this. God wants us to submit to their authority and we have no right to pick and choose when we obey them unless they try to make us sin. My husband never does anything like you say when I don't obey him. If I disobey I get punished , sometimes with lose of privilages and sometimes with a spanking.

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» left by Naylene from Troutdale, Oregon (2 years 107 days ago.)
Reader Rating: 2 out of 5
I am curious as to how the mentioned scriptures apply to women who have no sense of boundaries and have co-dependency tendencies. I am one of those, but am slowly growing and learning. How is submitting/serving others (not just spouse) good or profitable, if it's prompted by my weakness or insecurities?

I would love to read Angie's response to the woman in Florida. Personally, I DON'T believe it is right for a woman to deny herself the basic human right of personal hygeine and call it biblical submission to her husband. How many Sabbath laws did Christ break in order to bring life? How many social barriers did He cross to save the woman at the well? Through Christ's work on the cross, we're free from the law! That's the contrast of the Old and New Testaments.

We all must remember that whatever we say or do either represents Christ or misrepresents Him. Christ is MEEK, but what does MEEK mean, really? This is a word Christians often perceive wrongly. Meekness is not weakness. A good description is "strength under control."

No greater love has no man than this, that he lay down his life for a friend. Somehow Christians (me included) have grown up with the notion that submitting to the wishes of everyone around us is the basic definition of that scripture or the basic definition of meekness. Scriptures like these are so easily mis-interpreted by well-meaning Christian co-dependents (me included) and can be so detrimental. Florida should ask herself if she is truly being meek by submitting. Christ never submitted in a moment of weakness.

There are always 2 sides to each story but taking this at face value, what Florida describes here is an oppressive spirit. The very spirit Christ came to save each and everyone of us from and replace with His Spirit of life, grace and truth. Grace and Truth. Many Christians have pre-conceived concepts of grace or truth. Grace.....mushy, soft, forgiving. Truth....hardnosed, in-your-face, prophet like. But because of our misconception of the two, we think they're constantly at war with each other. It is a difficult concept to wrap my brain around, but the truth is, one without the other is neither. Read Randy Alcorn's very short book, Grace and Truth. Somehow, there is an answer "full of Grace and Truth" for Florida.
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» left by Angie Lewis (13,733)
Angie Lewis
(2 years 106 days ago.)

Hi Naylene, I am not sure what you are trying to get at here, but I don't think you are codependent. It sounds like you have been told that you are codependent so many times that you believe it. The more we are told there is something wrong with us, the more we believe it and act on it. You're talking to the wrong person about codependency (see my blog article on my website.) I do not believe that people are codependent any more than I believe in santa clause.

If you're codependent than so am I, and so is the rest of society. I do believe, however, that most people do need inner healing, and they do need to trust and rely, and DEPEND on God more for their spiritual and mental food. The root of behavioral problems is not something the medical establishment can help people with, as much as they would like to believe that. Man cannot heal man in the spiritual sense. We NEED to go to and TRUST God for that.

There are two ways we can live our life, and this is not a black or white concept it is what it is. We can be dependent and trust in what man says is best for us ands base our life on that, or we can be dependent and trust in what God says is best for us and base our life on that.

As for my not giving a response to Florida: Who am I to barge in on a marriage? She did not ask me for advice - she is simply expressing herself. And like you said, there are two sides to every story - what is his?

If you would like to talk further about any of these issues, please email me - I would be happy to talk with you.

Christ's peace be with you,
Angie
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» left by Anonymous (2 years 43 days ago.)
Reader Rating: 5 out of 5
Excellent article! God Bless! In my time of need this sure does sum up a lot of things me and my wife were going through. I really think the world has forgotten that a housewife is the hardest, most noble of professions and I value and honor that greatly. We forget sometimes what God intended for the family, and thats when problems arise. As a man, I also see sometimes men do not value the Homemaker as it should be valued. We need to make a stand for women to see that this is one thing the devil and his minions will attack, a solid stable home. But with God's help, he will not succeed!
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» left by Angie Lewis (13,733)
Angie Lewis
(2 years 33 days ago.)

Thanks! I think most marriages go through the same issues, but how we handle those issues is another matter, they can make our marriage even better, or they can break the marriage in two. I know that when we deal with our martial problems the way God intended for us to, we become stronger and better marriage partners than ever before. But if we selfishly divorce and do whatever feels good to us at the time, we never learn through those marriage issues. some couples just can't seem to get over the humps of marriage, and unfortunately it is breaking apart God's design.

I love your comments and would love to use them on my marriage website - I need more men (husband's) like you to stand up and appreciate all that their wives do! :-)

God Bless!
Angie
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» left by Carol from United Kingdom (1 year 42 days ago.)
Reader Rating: 4 out of 5
Dear Angie, Thank you for your article. But I was wondering what you think about a husband who is verbally abusive with outbursts of rage. My husband cussing horribly at me when he gets angry then goes upstairs and goes to bed. He also lies and have broken his word and trust many times. We don't have quality time together and he works a lot. He is the worship leader at church. I tried to counsel with the Pastor's wife and she relayed what a told her but they only seem to care that they've a worship leader. He never reads his bible and watches really bad stuff on tv. I've tried to be patient and loving and serve him like I would the Lord. But I guess I'm wondering is where one draws the line? Doesn't there have to be some boundaries of respect? I try to talk lovingly to my husband but he seems to think he can treat me and yell at me any old thing he wants to. I suppose I feel he is getting away with this abuse. I do pray and ask God if I'm doing something wrong - but his daughters even say he was a very selfish and angry man before. We are both in our 50's. I'm feeling really beaten down and it is affecting my health. Do you have any suggestions?

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» left by stuck from Planet EArth (147 days 5 hours ago.)
Dear Angie,
 Please respond to this woman's plea of help.  What a situation to be in!  A worship leader at church, watching bad things on tv & cussing at his wife.  HUH?  I don't understand.  AND, she's talked with the pastor's wife...and nothing?  ...under the carpet (so to speak).  WoW!  You two may have emailed privately, but this comment of her's was more than just a vent to your post.  (also, the same I felt with Florida). 
Writing a book/s on marriage, posting articles and such IS interferring in a marriage when others read your thoughts.  It DOES interfere & when someone comments on your post especially in Florida's Insulting & ABUSIVE situation & Carol UK - this particular worship leader's wife situation they are lurking for some comments, so PLEASE do not dismiss them....for their sake & others who may be experiencing a similar situation.  People google questions regarding these things & then see no reply.  ?  You write books & reply to some but not others.  Some may be Afraid to ask for help....and not leave an email out of fear of retaliation from the husband.   I'm sure some have secretly written down this web link & hidden it just to check back & see if a reply has been made.  Very sad when nothing is said because you don't want to interfere in a marriage.  ....I'll tuck my paper in my pocket now.  thanks.

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» left by Angie Lewis (13,733)
Angie Lewis
(127 days 9 hours ago.)

Carol I have answered your question in one of our marriage columns, please go to the home page of Heaven Ministries and there it will be. If you have any more questions, email me from my website. Take care!

Blessings,
Angie

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» left by Elizabeth from NZ (161 days 15 hours ago.)
Reader Rating: 1 out of 5
How sad that your image of a non believer is so distorted.  I do not dance in bars with strange men and I have often found that the more religious people in our community are often the least compassionate of others.  A world/humanist view rather than a superstitious/religious view is a much more forgiving approach to life than the dogma of any religion and requires some personal thought and consideration rather than repitition of the ramblings of thousands of year old desert nomads.
 
I feel so sorry for women locked into such considerations as "submission" to her partner.  An equality of individuals is what we non-believers think about.  Maybe you would find it helpful to consider the rights of individuals as required by the American constitution without reference to race, creed or gender.  Women are not bad and non believers are people too!

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» left by Angie Lewis (13,733)
Angie Lewis
(152 days 6 hours ago.)

Hello! I'm sorry you did not understand the article. My own mother is not a believer and she would never dance on bar room tables. I'm not sure how you perceived that I said "ALL Unbelievers{" dance on table tops. Perhaps you should read the article again.

Take care,
Angie



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» left by Sue (154 days 18 hours ago.)
I disoebeyed my husband but it was not by dancing in bars. I actually read out loud to my children each night and occasionally I went over the time alloted and wanted to finish the chapter before sending them off to bed. But that was lack of submission.Lots of punishment came my way.

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» left by Ben from Florida (40 days 10 hours ago.)
It's very difficult to judge whether your husband's action was justified with the scant information you provided. I am never quick to punish my wife though if I feel it is justified I don't hesitate. If you were punished for accidentally taking longer than you were allowed then all I can say is that is not something my wife would never be punished for. But if you are continually disobeying your husband this way as a form of passive aggressive behavior  than I can understand why lots of punishment came your way. You don't get ever get to choose when and if you obey your husband unless he is trying he is trying to get you do something that's  immoral. In the example you give, if you feel you need more time with the children you should approach your husband respectfully and make your feeling known. You might be surprised how well this would work. But if you choose to just ignore what he says then you do need to be punished very much

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» left by Ben from Florida (40 days 10 hours ago.)
correction above
 
that is not something my wife would EVER be punished for.

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» left by Angie Lewis (13,733)
Angie Lewis
(40 days 9 hours ago.)

Thanks Ben,
 
I appreciate a husband posting his thoughts on this very important issue in marriage. It helps to get the other side from a husband's point of view. If you would like to share anything else, please do so.
 
God bless!
 Angie

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» left by Ben from Florida (40 days 7 hours ago.)
Thank you Angie. I think there is always a danger of a husband abusing his authority of course. Husbands are human and make mistakes. In our 38 plus years of marriage I am sure my wife has received some spankings she really didn't deserve. No doubt this is true for the Children too. Hopefully these were very rare occurrences, though my wife may have a different opinion about this. But I think if a husband has a relationship with Jesus, then he will learn to be fair and only use correction appropriately and will know when mercy is the better path. Husbands are mere Humans, we need God's guidance.
 
 
Also it depends on the personality of the wife, some wives need more attention, some need much less, ditto Children. My own wife definitely falls in the first category I must report though over the many years of our marriage much less so. To approach everything prayerfully is the key I think. After a correction in our home we would always have a family prayer asking for God's guidance. It is always the case that the one punished is completely forgiven after the correction.
 
 
When I read the post of the lady who mentioned being punished for disobeying her husband about how long she was allowed to take in reading to the children I really did get a sense of a wife who doesn't really accept her husband's authority and acts out in a passive aggressive way. Of course I am guessing about this, I don't have enough detail to be sure I am right. There are Husbands who misuse their God given authority after all. But a Husband does have the right to set such a limit and an obedient wife abides by her Husband's wishes or faces the consequences of her willful actions. This is my opinion.
 
 

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» left by Lisa from Nevada (37 days 18 hours ago.)
Ben from Florida I don't think a husband ever has a right to spank his wife, that's should be a form of discipline that should be used on children only. I think You are are wrong doing this.
 

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» left by Ben from Floirda (36 days 1 hour ago.)
To Lisa in Nevada. It makes no sense at all to insist that a method of correction permissible for children is somehow impermissible for wives. If it's not too harsh for Children, it cannot logically be too harsh for an adult. In the Christian marriage the head of any family is the Husband and he is charged with leadership in the home. Therefore it must be his decision, and his decision alone, as to what form correction will take for members of the family he leads as long as such correction has Biblical sanction, which of course spanking certainly does. So a wife who accepts her Husband's leadership based on scripture which is explicit about the proper roles of husband and wife has no right whatsoever to think she can object to this form of correction if her husband chooses to use it. This is simply not a decision she has any right to make. Of course many good Christian Husbands decide, for whatever reason, not to correct wives this way and there is certainly nothing wrong with that. The Bible doesn't mandate physical correction, it just allows it within the confines of prudence and the need for punishment to be corrective and not unreasonably harsh.

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» left by star from arvada, colorado (127 days 14 hours ago.)
Reader Rating: 4.5 out of 5
angie i too am asking you to respond to the posts from women cringing under abusive husband's tyranny. they ARE asking for your help just by posting. that is very obvious. and while i have enjoyed your article, i agree with 'stuck from planet earth'. your silence to these posts is defeaning. please do not be someone who refuses to address a real issue resulting from your publicly avowed beliefs and witness. that would be so hypocritical and depressing. perhaps you have corresponded privately. perhaps not. there are some real cries for help here from women who look up to you and have actually read what you witnessed. do not wimp out and please reply for them. the claim to not want to intrude on a marriage is transparent and bogus. this is a public forum and so are your words, written in black and white and accessible to america. there has already been a knock on stangers' marriages' doors by going public with your words. and many strangers have responded. you have made claims regarding beliefs and codes of behaviors, from the word of God Himself, and professed a stance on this issue. ignoring the tricky, politically incorrect posts that may force you to confront a bit is not making it go away. it will only hurt and disillusion those who are being demeaned and not shepherded with love in their marriages. yes, there are 2 sides. and without judgement on those posters' husbands or taking it as gospel fact that they are abusive (we don't even know them), i urge you to just take these pleas for counsel at face value and GET OUT THERE AND COUNSEL THEM. we speak to them with the full knowledge that we are only hearing their sides and not the man's. that is fully acknowledged. please do not wimp out. angie, i have detected no reserve when reading your well put words of wisdom. why the deaf ear and blind eye when need is placed directly in front of us? yes, i am guilty of doing just that myself. because it is more comfortable for me. which is why i should also put my money where my mouth is. and that is a fact. i also do not have a widely read forum or ministry that people come to for comfort, help or solace. i am not well known and have precious little influence. you, however, have all of those things and speak your peice regularly. i do not know if you are really ignoring these women. i have no reason or proof except what i have read and NOT READ on this forum. forget about stepping on toes, those women are in a crises. you are the leader here. so lead. a man is known by the banners he may wave, amd equally by those he doesn't.

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» left by Angie Lewis (13,733)
Angie Lewis
(127 days 9 hours ago.)

This is also to Planet Earth. I have answered many of these marriage questions in a marriage column on my website dated June 24th...about 3 weeks ago. Unfortunately my columns are quite long and I am unable to copy and paste it into the SW post form. I will add it to the Heaven Ministries home page right after I post this. I'm thinking that most of these women click on the marriage link at the end of my articles and go to the ministry.

 I often ask people to email me from my ministry, especially when it is of such a sensitive/controversial nature as this subject can be. Search Warp is only a starting point for directing those who are in need to come to our marriage ministry website, where I offer free marital advice, free marriage resources, free articles, free ebooks, and lots of encouragement.

I'm not ignoring anyone, I have answered these same questions over and over again on my website. I have over 300 articles on the marriage ministry website offering the encouragement these women need. you can't take just one article on a subject and understand the roles of husband and wife. It takes a lot of praying and understanding your own position in the marriage so husband and wife can work together on these important issues. What I am saying is I can't help them in "one post" on here -- they need to come to the ministry.

I have a FREE AREA on our website located under the section titled "wives" that offers much more support on this subject. Maybe I should have a section just for this particular issue in marriage, I don't know.

Everyone come to the website and see my newest article about a "woman's submission to her husband".  I'm so very busy, but I answer everyone's questions, sometimes not on the SW post boards. I will do my best to answer these women today and direct them back to the ministry for more support.

Thanks for your encouragement!
In Christ,
Angie :-)



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» left by Ladyt from Chicago, IL (91 days 8 hours ago.)
Reader Rating: 5 out of 5
what if a husband says, "you are to do as I tell you to do". Is this the same as being submissive to your husband?

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» left by Angie Lewis (13,733)
Angie Lewis
(89 days 9 hours ago.)

Dear ladyt,
 
Why would a husband have to even say..."you are to do as I tell you to do"? You see that statement is not right. It sounds demanding and bossy but I don't know both sides to this issue and so I am not in liberty to even answer this question. Please come over to our website, Heaven Ministries Marriage Healing Ministry and you will most likely find your answer from your own soul searching through all of the materials we have to offer. Email me again from our website. Every Wednesday I do an email marriage column... today it is about the issue of headship and submission and so you may want to sign up before 2:00 today and I will send it to you. If it is after 2:00 eastern time that is ok, just email me from my website and then I'll send it to you.
 
Blessings
 
Angie

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» left by Marijo Phelps (2,767)
Marijo Phelps
(74 days 1 hour ago.)

Tough topic well handled in your writing. Thanks for sharing your insights. Marijo (Mary Jo - my dad is a creative speller)

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» left by Marijo Phelps (2,767)
Marijo Phelps
(74 days 1 hour ago.)

Reader Rating: 4 out of 5
Tough topic well handled in your writing. Thanks for sharing your insights. Marijo (Mary Jo - my dad is a creative speller)

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» left by Angie Lewis (13,733)
Angie Lewis
(73 days 7 hours ago.)

Hi again, Marijo! Yes, it is a tough and often controversial topic but one that leaves many questions unanswered. I hope that I can answer some of those questions in the Lord and give these women guidance for their marriage according to God's design for marriage.
 
Many blessings to you,
 
Angie :-)

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» left by Ben from Florida (35 days 20 hours ago.)
Angie thank you for this thoughtful article. However I must mention the following. There is a grave danger in a wife thinking she can disobey her husband because in HER judgment he isn't being a good leader which MIGHT be inferred from what you write. For example you write that God has left us with appropriate instructions for how a wife is to deal with a situation involving an abusive and self centered Husband who uses his authority not as a servant leader which is what God demands, but as controlling and uncaring tyrant which God clearly condemns. The problem here is that except in cases of obvious and/or dangerous abuse to her or the Children the benefit of the doubt must always be on the Husband's side. My point is that a wife can't evade God's command to submit to her husband's authority because he isn't perfect or sometimes wrongly chastises her. This is very dangerous for her soul and the proper function of the Christian family. God knew we were not perfect when he provided his revelations concerning Christians roles within the family. And knowing this,  he commands wives to submit to their husbands as the Church submits to Christ. This is not a wishy washy requirement, these are strong words. So a wife has only one justification to ever disobey her husband and one justification only. This justification would be if he demanded she sin and especially if his demands or actions endangered the well being or the salvation of her or their children. However, it is NEVER permissible for her to disobey him because she doesn't agree with his decision or is just unwilling to abide by what he requires of her. Think carefully on this. Unless her submission involves a sinful act or his actions endanger the welfare or the salvation of her and their children she MUST obey him. If this is kept in mind, then in my opinion, many of the questions being asked here have a ready answer. But never forget, that the Husband doesn't get a free ride.  In some ways his choices are even more limited. God will judge his actions by his fidelity to his assigned role as the servant leader of his home. His leadership will be judged using a very high standard, in many ways a higher standard than that of the wife, insofar as she upholds God's mandate for submission and obedience. It's just this simple but simple doesn't mean easy. But there can be great joy in the Christian marriage because God gives men leadership traits and women submissive traits and they will naturally embrace God's assigned roles if they embrace his word and be the happier for it.

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» left by Angie Lewis (13,733)
Angie Lewis
(35 days 9 hours ago.)

Hi Ben,
 
Thank you. I appreciate your insights. And I agree with everything you said. But now I must ask you...So then what do you consider "endangering the welfare or salvation of her and her children"?
 
One person's idea of "endangerment" may be different for another.
 
Blessings,
 Angie

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» left by Ben from Florida (34 days 18 hours ago.)
Angie there is no set answer to this question but I do think most of the time it won't be a difficult question. A wife must ask herself honestly, am I resisting my husbands leadership because I fear spiritual or physical harm to myself or the children or am I resisting his leadership because I just rather not obey him because it's not what I want to do. Here a wife must use her best judgment. But she should not be alone on this. First and foremost she should turn to the Lord in Prayer and seek his guidance. Also she should always have the option of going to her Minister to solicit his help and guidance.  Most Ministers can be helpful in situations like this. And finally in extreme cases, or when the danger is clear and present she MUST go the legal authorities. However, these options must never be uses frivolously or anytime she is upset with a decision of her husband. Were she to do this, a Husband would be justified in punishing her and most ministers would likely recommend this. In other words these options must be used a spirit of submission and obedience, not defiance and not as a weapon to resist her husband's leadership. In fact I know of at least one case where a wife's repeated complaints to her minister resulted in the solution to her problem being a specific punishment for her agreed upon by both her minister and husband.
 
 
Also I must comment on the situation described by Anonymous from Florida. This is clearly a case where intervention is needed. A husband who attempts to control his wife with crying and temper tantrums is not an example of servant leadership. His behavior, in my opinion, suggest mental instability and this always requires intervention. This isn't to say that a husband can't establish a dress code for example. My own wife is only permitted to wear clothing from Modest Apparel USA. She has a full wardrobe of dresses skirts and culottes but this is the only clothing she is ever allowed to wear. These clothes are both comfortable and attractive. This kind of decision is fully within the rights of any Husband. My wife also has a bedtime. This again is the kind of requirement a wife has no right to resist. She may always of course respectfully let her husband know her feelings about any decision she doesn't agree with and the wise husbands listens carefully and abides by her wishes if he feels it can add to her happiness without conflicting with the reason the decision was made in the first place. And the wise Husband always consults his wife on any big decision, especially financial decisions. Of course in the end the ultimate decision is his. I hope this is helpful and I thank you Angie for the existence of this forum where these kind of questions can be discussed. God bless you and your Family.
 
 
 
 
 

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» left by Angie Lewis (13,733)
Angie Lewis
(34 days 7 hours ago.)

Thanks Ben...
 
Well you know, this topic is so misused and abused that it helps to see others perspective on the subject. I appreciate your thoughts, wisdom and insights on such a sensitive subject...it may help others to understand what submission and headship in marriage is with a better understanding.
 
My view on dress code is I believe that a married woman would "want" to dress modestly when out in public anyway. if she is not then she has a moral issue that needs to be addressed between her and God. She needs to get her own self image issues worked out FIRST before she will be able to properly submit her will to her husband. She may become defiant with her husband thinking he is controlling her, when really he is only protecting her. Do you see what I'm saying?

And it doesn't stop there...there are many more instances of where a husband is only trying to "protect" but the wife takes it as manipulation and control. Sadly, this is happening because of the lack of Christ in people's lives. It happened to me many years ago in my own marriage, so I know through experience. This is why the submission thing is so controversial with people. Some people believe it to be primitive, outdated, old fashioned, etc...but the truth is, it is the way marriage works best...God's design for marriage doesn't become old and outdated, people just evolve without wisdom in their lives...need I say more? The Fear of the Lord is the Beginning of Wisdom.

It's your turn...
 
God bless you and yours!
 
In Christ,
 Angie

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» left by Ben from Florida (34 days 4 hours ago.)
Angie thank you your kind words. I do see what you are saying, a wife that is right with God should not have to be told how to behave or how to dress etc. She would naturally make choices that please her husband but more important would please the Lord. But God knows none of us is perfect, neither Husband or wife walks in perfection so we must just try to do the best we can.
 
Also quite simply not all wives are alike and submission and obedience comes with different degrees of difficulty. Some wives are so naturally submissive and obedient they hardly ever need correction, while others require much more attention. My own wife for most of our marriage has fallen into the second category often enough. Don't misunderstand, she is a good Christian women, her desire is to live God's law as much as any other Christian. But it's not as easy for her as some others.
 
When I was courting her, her father, a wonderful man, God rest his soul, warned me about my future wife's naturally rebellious nature. I didn't heed this warning early in our marriage and there was some trouble. But over time by adjusting my style of leadership using a combination of understanding, patience and some considerable firmness we built a very happy marriage. But I don't want to leave the impression that I enjoyed any perfection either. At times I was too harsh and less patient than I should have been and at times I let things go beyond the point they should have. But over time and suffering under a significant amount of error the right degree of understanding and firmness was established though even after many years of marriage I still don't always get it right.
 
Another example are our Children. Our oldest and youngest were generally little trouble but our middle one's  middle name was trouble. For a time we weren't sure if how we were bringing her up was working. She was rebellious and got into all kind's of trouble, including I am sad to say, drugs and alcohol. She spent a lot of time in Christian counseling and frankly she came to know my strap better than anyone else in the family. Well, as it turns out she ended up being a minister's wife and ironically (or maybe not) he is by far, the stricter of my two son in laws. And they are truly very happy.
 
Well, the point of this is that there is no one size fits all way for a Husband to lead his family, every family is different, every person is different. The one constant is God's plan for the family and our desire to follow that plan, which is our best hope for a happy life. I think it's fair to say this has worked for us and our Children and we didn't have to be perfect ,  we just had to walk in God's love.

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» left by Ben from Florida (34 days ago.)
I need to make an additional comment here Angie I offer these comments in the spirit of respect and appreciation for your efforts here to provide this help and for this forum where we can exchange ideas.  
 
 
 
You write
 
 
My view on dress code is I believe that a married woman would "want" to dress modestly when out in public anyway. if she is not then she has a moral issue that needs to be addressed between her and God. She needs to get her own self image issues worked out FIRST before she will be able to properly submit her will to her husband. She may become defiant with her husband thinking he is controlling her, when really he is only protecting her. Do you see what I'm saying?
 
 
 
This is certainly correct as far as it goes. But this issue is not ONLY between her and God, it is between her and her husband because he has been charged with the leadership role. Of course you and I are looking at this from a different perspective. You as an obedient and submissive wife and myself as someone charged with leadership. But from my side, a husband can't simply wait for his wife to come to see why her husband is correct In order for her to obey him.
 
 First she may never see this and second, HE MAY NOT BE RIGHT, THIS DOESN'T RELIEVE HER OF THE REQUIREMENT TO OBEY HIM, and third and most important, allowing a wife to be disobedient until SHE decides that her husband is correct isn't submission, it's negotiation. The Bible doesn't say submit to your husband as soon as you see why he is right.
 
 
So I guess my problem with what you write is the order you have it in. Rather, as I see it, it must be, FIRST a wife will submit to her husband, and then hopefully she will come to accept his decision not because she will be punished for defiance, which of course she must be, but because as you say, she will have put herself right with God and accept his right to make these choices for her as part of God's plan.

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» left by Lynn from Boston, MA (33 days 19 hours ago.)
Reader Rating: 3 out of 5
Give me a break! A man 'spanking' his wife?? What is this, domination & submission?? I am a christian woman. I went to christian college. I was married and raised 2 sons. After 21 yrs I found out he was a cross-dresser, so I divorced him.
 
If he EVER laid a hand on me he would have been out the door immediately and the cops would have been called.
 
My Bible says for raising CHILDREN: Spare the rod, spoil the child.
 
Shame Shame on you all for encouraging 'spanking' your wife. I bet 99.9% of men would abuse that ...leading to wife beating.
 
Give a break here!

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» left by Angie Lewis (13,733)
Angie Lewis
(33 days 8 hours ago.)

Hi Lynn,
 
At first, to be honest, I was a little bit taken aback by it myself, but now we have no right to judge how a man leads his home. If this is how it works for him in his household, why should it concern you? I don't think he is encouraging that other husbands do the same, I think he is sharing with us a different perspective and what works for him in his family. He even made that point quite clear. Of course, this would not work for everyone because personalities are different and circumstances are different in every household, you know what I mean.
 
My view on this is I truly believe that a husband shouldn't have to punish or discipline his wife if they are both doing their part in the Lord. We have to choose to love our husbands in the proper ways and the husband needs to choose to love his wife in the proper ways, and when something does not go as planned they should sit down and talk about it like husband and wife, not dad and child.
 
With that said, each family is different and if that works for them, then may God bless them for their efforts. Don't be too intolerant here, give the guy a break. I commend him on his honesty and sharing.
 
On another note, we Christians need to learn to be respectful when and if we disagree. I disagree about spoiling a child. I believe a child should be disciplined when they misbehave. But I would never condemn you for your efforts. It is your household and that is what works for you.
 
Many blessings to you and yours,
 
In Christ,
 
Angie

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» left by Ben from Florida (32 days 20 hours ago.)
left by Lynn from Boston, MA (14 hours 54 minutes ago.)
 
New Comment!
 
Give me a break! A man 'spanking' his wife?? What is this, domination & submission?? I am a christian woman. I went to christian college. I was married and raised 2 sons. After 21 yrs I found out he was a cross-dresser, so I divorced him.
 
 
****************************
 
Ben writes
 
 
And the relevance of this is what? You are so angry Lynn. Let's talk.
 
 
*********************************
 
Lynn writes
 
 
If he EVER laid a hand on me he would have been out the door immediately and the cops would have been called.
 
 
*******************************************************
 
 
Ben Writes
 
 
That's your legal right, and this is your choice. There is no basis in law for the submission of a wife in marriage, nor should there ever be one. The choice to submit to the leadership of the Husband in marriage must of course be a free choice of the wife. However, what isn't optional is obedience and submission to his authority as long as the free choice of the wife is to live in submission to her husband is in effect.
 
 
********************
 
 
Lynn writes
 
 
My Bible says for raising CHILDREN: Spare the rod, spoil the child.
 
 
*****************************
 
 
Ben writes
 
 
So this is a pride thing then? It's OK to spank Children, but to be spanked yourself hurts your pride? It can't be because you think physical correction is wrong, after all you think it's OK for your children and you would never punish children in a way you thought was wrong.
 
 
*******************************
 
 
Lynn Writes
 
 
Shame Shame on you all for encouraging 'spanking' your wife. I bet 99.9% of men would abuse that ...leading to wife beating.
 
 
***************************
 
 
Ben Writes
 
 
 I am describing what has  worked in my home for 38 years of marriage. Some husbands use other forms of correction as I do some times too. How a Husband leads in his own home is his choice.
 
 But I am glad you mention wife beating. Let me suggest you should ask the question of how many Christian homes where wives are spanked by their husbands, and there are many more than you think, have been involved in domestic violence police calls and how many non Christian secular households are involved is such calls, you know the homes where spanking a wife would never be considered. And how many women are brutally assaulted in such non wife spanking homes, as opposed to correcting a wife in a manner that the Bible advocates for Children.
 
 
Lynn I don't know if you are in a marriage where you submit to your husband as the Church submits to Christ, which are the strong words the Bible uses. But submission doesn't mean only when you give permission and if in fact you embrace God's plan for marriage and freely accept your assigned role in marriage then it's my opinion that the decision as whether your husband spanks you or not is his, and his alone. But of course you are always free, and should always be free, to reject submission and obedience. Submission and obedience must always be acts of the free will and in the end are between you and God.
 
 
***************************
 
Lynn
 
 
 
Give a break here!
 
 
*************
 
 
Ben Writes
 
 
Be well Lynn, God bless you and your family
 
 
 
 

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» left by Carrol from Texas (28 days 8 hours ago.)
Shame shame on you Lynn. I don't know what christian college you went to but you need to read your bible. It says
 
Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.
 
IT SAYS TO SUBMIT IN EVERYTHING. See the word EVERYTHING. Not just what think you should submit to. If my husband decides I need a spanking then what gives me the right to even think for a second I have the right to say no. Now I don't get spanked a lot but I know my husband has a right to spank me if I disobey him.
 
—Ephesians 5:22-33
 
Colossians 3:18-19
 
Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord. Husbands, love your wives, and do not be harsh with them.
 
God tells our husbands not to be harsh with us but he doesn't tell them not to punish us when we disobey. Why would God even say this if he thought Husbands are not allowed to punish their wives under God's law. If you don't want to be spanked all you have to do is obey your husband, simple.

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» left by Anonymous from Charlotte, NC (13 days 22 hours ago.)
Reader Rating: 4 out of 5
Just a few quick questions. Where are the Scripture references that say that it is permissible for a husband to punish his wife - in any capacity? I'm familiar with all the Proverbs references to punishment for children, and I'm very familiar with the passages on wives submitting to husbands. I am not questioning whether or not a wife should submit to her husband. But, I am having a hard time finding anything that equates how husbands deal with their children, to their wives. The argument that what is appropriate for our children is also appropriate to wives, does not carry weight. There is certainly a difference in the affection you show your wife, and the affection shown to a daughter. Why? Because there is a difference in the roles; one is a spouse/helpmeet/partner/parent - the other is a child.
 
So, opinions aside - I would like to know which Biblical passages you use to support physical punishment (or really any punishment) of your wife?

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» left by Anonymous (12 days 7 hours ago.)
So many fallacies and poor reasoning in Carrol's comment above.
 
Scripture references do not support physical punishment of wives - only that husbands shouldn't be harsh. Colossians passage is simply a list of roles for husbands, wives, children, servants. Interestingly it tells children to obey 'parents' (not just father) in everything; note that it does not say "wives and children - obey the father in everything". We must be careful not to insert what we want to hear in the Scriptures, Carol. Just because it says that husbands are not to be harsh, doesn't mean that it is speaking of being harsh in physical punishment. And look carefully at the directive, particularly in Colossians, it says "as is fitting in the Lord". What that means is that sometimes it is not fitting and wives should submit as it is fitting. He doesn't say who gets to decide when it is fitting - but he also doesn't say that the wives can't decide or that the husbands are the only ones to decide.
 
Just be careful how you throw around Scripture to support your way of thinking. I'm perfectly fine with you saying "my interpretation of this passage" or "My take is". I'm not saying that there are no absolutes and that there is not a correct interpretation of these passages, but I think that all would do well to keep in mind that it is God's Word, not ours, and we must be very careful about how we represent what Christ says.

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» left by Ben from Florida (12 days 2 hours ago.)
 
I would like to respond to your comments to Carroll. Carroll can of course respond further if she chooses to, but I feel I need to reply to these particular comments. You write;
 
"He doesn't say who gets to decide when it is fitting -- but he also doesn't say that the wives can't decide or that the husbands are the only ones to decide."
 
The problem with this is simple. A wife does not have the option of picking and choosing, when if and how, she will submit to her husband. Submission isn't a negotiation.  If it were the Lord would have written Wives obey your husband if you decide to because ..... add whatever criteria. You can split hairs all you want but God's word is clear, he says "Wives obey your Husbands in all things."
 
As Carroll mentioned the Lords tells Christian wives;
 
 
"Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should SUBMIT IN EVERYTHING to their husbands."
 
It doesn't say SUBMIT AS APPROPRIATE. The Lord gives no authority for a wife to ever question, second guess or negotiate the terms of her obedience or submission. You are always free to reject the Lord's command of submission to the authority of your Husband, but you are never free, as an obedient wife living God's word, to defy any decision your husband makes and that includes his decision to punish you using this long established method of Christian correction, if he feels it is needed.
 
Let me point that this idea that Husbands have no right to chastise their wives for disobedience is a very recent change in the common understanding of the roles and duties in marriage in the Christian world. This notion is less than 60 years old and Christianity dates back over 2000 years. And of course God's word predates the Christian era also. The New testament just makes clearer God's plan for the roles and duties of Husband and wife in a Christian marriage, it doesn't represent any change of God's commands. So yes you are right, be very careful how you represent what Christ says.

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» left by Anonymous (11 days 18 hours ago.)
There are many "long established methods of Christian correction" that are not Biblical. Just because Christians have done it for thousands of years, doesn't make it right. You're also forgetting that Abigail deceived King David (couldn't call that submission) and it was counted to her for righteousness. And you're also forgetting God's instruction to Abraham in Genesis 21:12 to do whatever Sarah said (her taking a leadership role). There are obviously many other instances in Scripture where women are to use good judgement in their subjection. Really, all I'm saying is that we simply need to differentiate what our opinion is, and what is actually Biblically mandated. Ben, it may be your opinion that it is acceptable - but you have yet to produce what another comment requested, and that is the Biblical basis.

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» left by Ben from Florida (11 days 4 hours ago.)
Sure the various methods of wife correction were in force even before scripture. But no where in scripture is the chastisement of a wife prohibited. There is no explicit scripture dealing with the punishment of a wife by her Husband, but neither is there any condemnation of it. Given that this was a universal practice and there is no condemnation of it, then this falls under the proper authority of the head of household. My wife is required to maintain certain hygiene practices, she is never allowed to wear pants, she must wear a dress or skirt, or for comfort around the house culottes, she must be in her bath by 9:30 PM and in bed by 10 PM unless she has permission to stay up later, none of this is specifically in the bible. I instituted these practices for quite practical reasons, my wife becomes cranky and irritable unless she gets her sleep and she lacked the self discipline to go to bed at a reasonable time. As the person whose authority she is under it is my right and duty to set these rules for her. None of this will you find in scripture but these are not things the Bible gives my wife permission to object to.
 
As for the examples you give concerning Sarah and Abigail you are quite correct. Of course God uses our wives to impart wisdom to us as he sees fit to do. But neither of these examples can be used to justify disobedience to a husband's authority. Where in scripture does Abigail disobey or even show disrespect to King David or Sarah disobey or show disrespect to Abraham. God doesn't instruct our wives not to counsel us, only to do so respectfully.
 
 
You can't have it both ways to be obedient but only on a case by case basis. That's not true submission. However, I always listen to my wife and seek her opinion on just about every thing. I would be a fool not to. The final decision is always mine and once that decision is made she may not continue to question it, but on every major decision her views are carefully considered and often enough we do it her way.
 
BTW I think it fair to say my wife is very happy, we have been married for about 38 years raising three children to adulthood all who are in more or less traditional marriages.

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» left by Anonymous (10 days 2 hours ago.)
Any book of logic will tell you that it is a fallacy to say that because x is not prohibited, then it must be allowed. It is a fallacy to say that because physical punishment of wives is not prohibited, then it is Biblically supported. At a very basic level - it's just poor logic.
 
Ben, it sounds like you have done a good job of running your household the way that you see fit - and it has worked for you, your wife, and your children. You are perfectly within your bounds as a faithful Christian man to set the rules and limitations of your household. I think it a bit over-kill to set so many rules for a fellow-adult, but that is simply my opinion. You have shown yourself to be gentle in your approach here, and I think that speaks volumes when writing over the internet (people generally take a lot more liberty to say things over the internet that they would never say in person).
 
That being said, my general concern for many writers on this discussion - especially where the physical punishment of wives is concerned - is that where Scripture does not speak, we cannot speak for it. You have not given any sort of Biblical reference or passage to support the physical punishment of wives. So, how can it be said that it is a "Biblical Thing" to do - just because it was commonly practiced in the culture? That argument is a very slippery slope. There are many things that we do in life that are not Biblically supported, but are not wrong. Obviously we cannot have Biblical support for doing everything that we do in life. But the danger that I am trying to address is one of trying to justify our actions or views with Scripture, when there is in fact no Scripture to support it, or by twisting passages into saying what they are not.
 
Any thoughts, Angie?

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» left by Ben from Florida (9 days 18 hours ago.)
I think with regard to the logic of my position the fact that it isn't prohibited and the fact that spanking is a form of correction sanctioned by the bible means simply that whether or not a wife is spanked is the husband's decision. But let me clarify this point, further. While it's my opinion that there is no biblical sanction for a wife to view her husband's decision to spank her as something she can object to, a wife is always free to reject submission. So in this sense the use of spanking always involves mutual consent.
 
Ironically ,  as we are having this discussion ,  the issue of spanking has become a question mark in one of daughter's marriage. My daughter whose has been married about ten years, and is having some marital issues, has requested that her and her husband enter into a Christian Domestic Discipline (CDD)  relationship. Her husband is resistant to this. He has spanked her a few times during their marriage, but he is reluctant to enter into a regular CDD arrangement. Our daughter has asked my wife and I to intervene so that he will honor her wish.
 
My own position on this is that while I may relate why this choice was successful for us, how he runs his household is his decision, not mine. If it's his decision not to honor my daughter's request then that the way it will be. The problem is though that knowing my daughter I think she will force this issue.
 
I had a very similar experience in the first years of our marriage. I didn't want any part of CDD and, though my wife has never admitted it, I believe she purposely acted out to force my hand. I love my wife and had no interest in a divorce. But the status quo simply was not workable. The solution was embracing a CDD relationship. It was my decision, but I feel confident it was my wife's desire.
 
None of this may make much sense on the surface, but it's my understanding that more often than not, it's the wife that desires a CDD marriage, not the Husband. I actually don't have any real statistics on this but from my Internet surfing this seems to be the case. It is the case in my own family I believe.
 
So let me tell you that my wife has been spanked three times this year. A while back she got a speeding ticket. I didn't punish her but I did tell her that if it happened again she would get two spankings. Well, it did happen again and I followed through with my promise. She made two trips to the Library (which is where she is corrected) on two consecutive days. The third spanking is when she got into an argument with our daughter in law and she made some very cruel remarks. This earned her a trip to the library and an apology to our son and his wife. Hopefully her trips to the Library are over for a long time.
 
So you can judge for yourself what you think of all this. I think that many (but probably still a minority) Christians have from time to time entered into a CDD relationship, it's not something you tell your friends in Church about. But again this is my suspicion, I have no data to back this up. But it would be a very interesting study if someone could investigate this.

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» left by Angie Lewis (13,733)
Angie Lewis
(7 days 9 hours ago.)

Hello brothers and sister in Christ,
 
Well my thoughts are this. Even though I have never heard of spanking as a form of correction, if it works for Ben's' family then that is what matters. He being the head of his household...
 
It was Carol (Ben's wife) who emailed me and let me know what a wonderful marriage she has had for the last 38 years...her testimony was wonderful to hear. I believe they have a blessed marriage and will continue to be blessed.
 
With that said, I don't imagine that spanking is a very widely known practice or ever will be, but hey, if it works for some couples in their marriage that's fine. My opinion about spanking is much the same as what anonymous said. I don't believe that a husband should have to resort to such a strong punishment for a mature woman in the Lord. And I don't think it will work for the majority of marriages. I see resistance from both the husband and wife on spanking for correction.

I believe a good form of correction is going right into scripture. If we disrespect others, what does scripture say about that? If a wife disrespects her family she should not only be corrected by her husband through scripture but she needs to seek repentance from God...she is not a child she is a woman, which to me should entail a different form of correction than that of a child.

I think the scripture that would be most useful in the context is 2 Timothy 3:16
"All Scripture is God Breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be EQUIPPED FOR EVERY GOOD WORK."
 
As Christians our most important lesson through this particular forum to be learned is how to interact with each others, respecting each others beliefs the best we can, especially when something is silent in scripture. I think that Ben and Anonymous handled this well and were respectful with each other.
 
As far as submission/headship goes it all boils down to accepting and applying our God-given roles in marriage. If both husband and wife are assuming their roles and respecting the roles of each other then rarely, if ever should there be a problem. This is what husbands and wives need to work on if they are wanting to have a happy, blessed filled marriage.

Why do you think that God commands that a husband LOVE his wife (the same way that He loves the church) or command that a wife respect her husband (position/roles)???...there is a strong spiritual purpose here that all christian couples should understand, knowledge and apply into their marriage for healthy marriages.

We should always rebuke, correct and teach one another respectfully and "in the Lord".
 
In Christ,
Angie

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» left by Angie Lewis (13,733)
Angie Lewis
(7 days 6 hours ago.)

Hello again,
 
A revelation came to me while I was cleaning my house. (this is usually when I receive tidbits of wisdom, and not when I am at my computer writing. But tell me what you all think.
 
The reason why it works for Ben and Carol and a handful of others is because it was what they were taught when they were young. Carol's own father spanked her mother and consequently is how she wants to be corrected by her husband. Ben even said, he did not do that when they were first married but she (Carol) requested it. Well, amen to that.
 
Then I started thinking as I was sweeping my kitchen floor that this is why women now a days have such a hard time allowing their husbands to lead the family...it is because they themselves, at least most of them, were not brought up in a home where their dad was the head of the household. Now a days in this Christian culture, mothers are teaching their daughter the very opposite of God's design for marriage.

Most young gals are taught to go out and get educated and get a good career because "you can't count on a man supporting you kind of attitude". I'm not against education, but I am not for a woman surpassing her husband's headship position in marriage, simply because it is not scriptural and is not what Christ intended for marriage.

The whole submission/headship thing is already controversial for many women and even men for that matter, that when something such as spanking comes out in the open, people tend to judge and make preconceived notions. But the smart and mature way to handle beliefs that go against your own is to put yourself in the other persons shoes for a moment.
 
Anyway, just wanted to add a couple more cents worth. let me all ask you a question--(not Ben and Carol since we already know what works for them). I'm curious to know is if the church you belong to teaches the man is head of the woman and if so how does it work in your home? Any insight would be helpful, but please keep this forum respectful and kind. We're all Christians here and if you are not, then you really shouldn't post your thoughts.
 
In Christ,
 Angie

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» left by Elle (9 days 6 hours ago.)
Wow! I really am just shocked. Through reading all of this discussion, I was trying to imagine a situation in which there could be something rebellious enough that a wife could do to warrant a spanking from her husband. I was having a hard time coming up with much of anything and I really can't believe that you've drawn lines where you have, for your wife. I've been a Christian all of my life (made a profession of faith at the age of 7), and grew up with a very faithful community of very patriarchal believers - but I've NEVER heard of anything like this before! I've been exposed to a wide variety of denominations - Baptist, Presbyterian, Episcopal, Catholic, Assembly of God, Church of Christ - and still I have never known anyone or even heard of anyone who practiced CDD. Perhaps my exposure to the broader Christian world's practices are not what I think, but I would be really shocked if even a small fraction of believers practiced this form of CDD.
 
Also, is it not under-mining your son-in-laws headship to involve yourself (at the request of your daughter) in their marital issues? All along you've said that it is the husbands choice to make - so if he doesn't want any part of CDD, then it doesn't seem consistent for you to step in, regardless of your daughter's requests. Perhaps this is your thinking as well - it was a little vague from your paragraph above.
 
Another question that is brought to mind after reading all of these comments. A woman above rebuked another woman saying something to the effect of "If it is not too painful, or too damaging to the pride of your children to spank - why is it something you object to yourself?" Following that logic, who spanks the father? Since the husband is head of the wife, and Christ is head of the husband - and the earthly representation of Christ is the church - are the church leaders then in a position to physically punish the husbands? If so, do men actually submit themselves to church discipline when they do things like speak harshly and get too many speeding tickets? Many of these comments argue that men are held to an even higher standard by God. So, are the men holding themselves to the same standard that they hold their wives - and making open repentance by subjecting themselves to physical punishment, as the church sees fit?

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» left by Ben from Florida (8 days 21 hours ago.)
This is my last comment on this topic. I have made myself very clear over and over. First whether or not my son in law practices CDD is his business. I wouldn't presume to tell any other Husband how to run their house. At my daughter's request however , I did explain the benefits that we felt were derived from CDD in our marriage. You will no doubt be appalled to find out that he has decided to incorporate CDD in their marriage on a trial basis. You might remember this is what our daughter wants which should further upset you. So starting tomorrow they are doing a CDD booth camp that they found on the Internet. Just google "being Head of Household" if you are curious. Finally I am not telling anyone how to live their lives, I am only relating what has worked for us and why I think it's justfied. It's also true I am sure this would not work for everyone. My last word , my wife and I will be involved with our daughter and son in law in this "booth Camp" per their request. Be well and God bless.
 
 

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» left by Diana Elaine from Syracuse, NY (5 days 6 hours ago.)
Reader Rating: 4.5 out of 5
Hello all,
 
I'm new here ... and have a HUGE question on submission. What does a wife do, when her husband does not keep himself physically clean? It's very hard to be close to him, or WANT to be close to him, yet I know I am to submit to him and be there for him.
 
Yes, I have talked to him about this several times, in a very loving way ... yet nothing changes. He rarely showers, doesn't brush his teeth and there is food caked on his bottom teeth, and he is missing 2 teeth in front. He doesn't use deodorant, not does he ever wear after shave. He works on cars allot, so his hands are almost always dirty, under the nails, etc. ... and him wanting to be intimate with me, is not only a turn off, but scary, as I'm afraid of an infection.
 
Please advise on this, because this is one subject, that I've never seen addressed.
 
Thank you!
 
Diana

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» left by Angie Lewis (13,733)
Angie Lewis
(5 hours 25 minutes ago.)

   New Comment!   
Dear Diana,
 
I truly do not know what to say...I'm kind of curious as to why you would marry a man who is filthy? Or did this only happen after the marriage? Is he depressed, low self esteem, or on medication, alcoholic....??? These issues would keep him from taking care of himself.
 
This kind of situation will take some creativity from you, that's for sure. Try this out and let me know how it goes. Next time you take a shower, why don't you invite your husband with you. While you are getting clean, ask him to scrub your back and you do the same for him. Once you guys are all clean, tell him how much more you appreciate him when he smells so clean and fresh.

I hope this helps.
Take care,
Blessings,
Angie

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