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Susan Thom

Envision If You Were Gay, Instead Of Judging Because You're Not

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Submitted Wednesday, November 28, 2007
Submitted by: Susan Thom (8,304)
Susan Thom

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If I were gay, I would be just as hurt and confused and angry as almost all other gay people are due to the way Society makes them feel. I have talked to some gay people,and gotten their perspective. They are different, and they know it. They feel different feelings than what society dictates they feel, and they are ashamed, something must be wrong with them. They go all through school with this attitude, and these feelings, and then continue on into society where it is even worse. If I were gay, I would have felt all these things. I would wonder how in the world people could think my Hell was a choice?

I would try to fit in, but it would never happen, and I would stick to more unconventional friends who didn't care I was gay. So many gay and lesbian human beings live their whole lives in a shroud of pretense and hypocrisy, so they don't have to feel the pain society would inflict on them if they knew. Who in this society, I say? Does society feel like this person? My uncle didn't tell a soul, his whole life, my family member hasn't told a soul but her partner, and when my friend told me, my reply was, "You're just finding that out now?"
 
In their beautiful homes, with their cushy jobs, and 2.5 kids, do they know the heartache of being an outcast your entire life? And on top of that, you have been persecuted since kindergarten. Do we honestly in our souls, believe that this loving God we pray to, and created this other group of people, cares what kind of sexual relations they have? And do we really feel that these people want to feel this way; it's a choice to suffer, commit suicide, overdose, addiction, or pretend your whole life?

Maybe, instead, this God is hoping his people will learn how to get along, since that is the meaning of life, to learn to love and be loved. Oh, I know all the Bible talk, but I don't believe everything in the Bible, or man's recollections. I'm sorry to those who do, I mean no disrespect, I simply believe in a loving God, and a God that doesn't even think about sex on Earth between His people. He's saying, "When are you going to get it?" He created us all, some might think this other group of people are His mistakes, only He doesn't make mistakes, and we all know it.

Anyone can go to a University or Lab, and see for themselves, scientific evidence that pinpoints a gene that would rule sexual orientation, and yet, they don't understand. We are so wrapped up in whether these people had a choice or not, that we are not focusing on the love and acceptance we are really supposed to be practicing.

God is this powerful entity, providing us with the majesty of the mountains and the beauty of the rivers and oceans, and the sunrise and sunset and moon and stars and all the flowers and trees for us to appreciate. Do we really think He is concerned with what some of His children do in their bedroom? Maybe men thought that, and wrote that, but a loving God who wants nothing but the best for His children, could not create of group of people and abandon them. They may very well be His chosen few who He placed here to test those who do not follow by His intentions of learning how to love.

When a mother looks down at her newborn, should she be caring what their sexual orientation is going to be? Or should she just cuddle it and care for it, an show it love? She herself, was a carrier of a lesson, which I think is an honorable role. She may not like it, but what should she do? Keep them home forever so the world doesn't have to put down someone else they don't understand, so they don't accept. Along with so many other people the "world" doesn't accept.

I'm not part of that world. I still believe it's a hard, lonely, and sad lifestyle, so I wouldn't necessarily want one of my kids to be gay, but if they were, I would accept it, I wouldn't disown them or stop seeing them, and at least I know I wouldn't treat them any differently, or love them any less. My opinion is meant in no way to infringe upon others' rights to be themselves. And I don't think they are demons or negative influences. There are inappropriate gay and lesbian people just like there are inappropriate  heterosexuals.

If I went out to dinner with my boyfriend, and a gay couple, I would hope they were not thinking about my sexual behavior, as I wouldn't be thinking about theirs'. We are going out to dinner, and should be in that frame of mind. Who thinks about someone else's sexual activity while having dinner? Then, why make it a big deal any other time? I know, the Bible. Well, what if the Bible is wrong?

I feel that if we love everyone equally, and don't discriminate, be loving to all, we have a better chance of getting into Heaven than if we do everything right, and by the Bible, and scream at our kids, talk about our neighbor, put down the housekeeper, have an affair, steal from the company we work for, and lie to a friend who wanted a favor. But, many know every Bible verse. And yet, love is the answer. It's simple. And everything we should be thinking and learning and doing, should be reflecting that.

I had an uncle, a family member, and a good friend who were all gay, and they are all wonderful, giving, caring people who are contributing positive and loving energy to society. There's a hundred and seventy years of minutes that these people contributed to our world, and two are still alive to continue doing so. When I talk to them or see them, I enjoy their company.

I can't say the thought of their sexual orientation doesn't cross my mind, but in what I believe to be, a natural way. It in no means interferes with the care I have for them and the enjoyment I am getting out of being with them. What they do when they go home, is none of my concern, as I hope mine isn't to them. Some men take advantage of their wives, but because they are heterosexual, and they are married, it's alright. The Bible says so.

I cannot fathom why, with all the problems on the Earth, God would single out sexual orientation as a mortal sin. Why would He care? If it wasn't in the Bible, would it still exist, or would people accept some wonderful people into their lives? There's more to life than excluding groups of people. Except of course, when they are grown men dressed in robes and pretending to be good priests, and taking advantage of their power with young boys.
 
There is learning how to love, and I didn't get that from the Bible. I got that from my soul. There is the realization that whether hetererosexual, gay, white, chinese, black, indian, hindu, moslem or any other nationality, one Entity created us all, and loves us for who we are, and for who He created us to be. Scientists wouldn't have been able to uncover a gene that creates this, if one wasn't there. To further cast these people out when they already have a cross to bear, is not a loving and God like thing to do. However, making them feel like human beings, and treating them as such, now that's a God like thing to do.
 

                      

 


Susan Thom is the mother of three children, two sons, 17 and 21, and a daughter 22. Writing calms her, and gives her a place to go. By herself! Clears the head and gets it out. She lives in a rural area, with a lake and mountains, her son and her partner, and has loved writing since she was a child.

She certainly hopes you enjoy her take on life, and her style of communicating that in stories.

She has been on a journey of self discovery for twenty years, and has learned many things about the human mind, and how to maintain some semblance of calm and peace within.

If someone reads one of her stories, and relates to her feelings, and maybe gets a suggestion on how she dealt with them in a positive way, that would be the ultimate gift of her writing.






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Comments on this article:


» left by Bruce Horst (691)
Bruce Horst
(318 days 20 hours ago.)

Reader Rating: 5 out of 5
Interesting article, Sue.

I heard years ago that a person's opinion of the gay segment of society changes greatly after a person for the first time gets to know someone who is gay.

When I was younger I started a job where I worked side-by-side with quite a few people who were gay. Yes, indeed it changed my opinions a great deal.

Don't get me wrong, I'm as straight as they come, but because of a few factors in my background I often feel like I am an outcast of society. I came to understand that I had a lot in common with those gay co-workers and I probably relate to them more easily than I do to most straight men. While I may not agree with their lifestyle I would defend them with everything I have, and I am proud that they consider me their friend.

For many people, being gay and dealing with all that it entails is a journey often walked alone. As a Christian I feel responsible to reach out to the outcast and those who feel alone. Too bad it doesn't seem like most Christians feel that responsibility.
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» left by Anonymous (318 days 20 hours ago.)
hi bruce,
thank you for reading and responding.
i, too, had to be directly influenced by people who were funny, honest, loyal, intelligent, and just all around good people, and were gay, before i truly understood their plight, and sympathized. the fact that the majority of people truly believe God would not love his own creations, boggles my mind, and anyone who thinks it's a choice, just don't know. maybe it's not a choice that they are alcoholics either, or abusive to their wives and children!
best regards,
sue
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» left by Terry Mitchell (2,295)
Terry Mitchell
(314 days 3 hours ago.)

Reader Rating: 4 out of 5
Sue, you say, "Well, what if the Bible is wrong?" There's your problem right there. If don't believe the Bible, you will always be confused. You either take God for His Word or you don't. His words are not a buffet -- you can't select the parts you like and discard what you don't like. It doesn't work that way. There are lots of things in the Bible I don't like either. But I have no choice but to accept them if I'm going to please God.

Yes, we should love gay people as humans just like we love anyone else. However, we should not accept their sinful lifestyle as valid. Kleptomaniacs don't choose their condition either, but we still discourage them from stealing because it's wrong. Homosexual activity is just as wrong and therefore gays should remain celebate. Yes, I know that's a burden to bear. But everyone has burdens to bear, not just gays.
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» left by Anonymous (314 days 2 hours ago.)
hi terry,
i respect your opinions, and i thank you for reading my article and commenting.
however, if gays were created by God, why in the world would he want them alone to stay celibate, when blacks, whites, orange, rapists, abusers, all have that right? the bible has no meaning to me in my life. being kind and good and honest and responsible and trustworthy are my goals, and what i do in my bedroom should be just as private as what gays do. they are also children of God, and if God wants them to be the way He created them, who are men and women to say different?
i believe in a loving God, who loves all His children the same, and if He created someone with one arm, that may be a burden they have to bear, but no one picks on their sexual preferences. if someone is blind, do we ask if they are gay? all burdens, but all God's beloved children.
God didn't write the Bible, man did, and that is my problem.
best regards,
sue thom

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» left by Terry Mitchell (2,295)
Terry Mitchell
(314 days 2 hours ago.)

Reader Rating: 4 out of 5
Sue, thanks for responding to my comments. You are partially right, God did not physically write the Bible with His own hands. He inspired His servants, who were men (and women) to write it. If you do not believe this, then what is your basis for believing in God at all? How do you know He even exists? What is your proof? Is it just some kind of trendy touchy-feeling new-age kind of gut feeling?

The truth is, of course, that the one true God is unchanging and not subject to human whims. He is reveals himself in His Word (the Holy Bible) and nowhere else. If you want to know Him, you must read and trust His Word. Once you separate God from His Word, you have not no god at all. All that's left is a figment of human imagination that can be molded into any kind of being that seems reasonable and logical to them. In this case, we (humans) become the master and God becomes the servant.
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» left by Anonymous (314 days 2 hours ago.)
Reader Rating: 4 out of 5
"If don't believe the Bible, you will always be confused." Isn't it possible that the Bible is not wrong, but man's interpretation of it is? What about the part of the Bible that says that the Earth is the center of the universe? (Please see http://searchwarp.com/swa276321.htm ) Is Ecclesiastes 1:5 wrong, or was man's interpretation of it wrong?

There are some pretty specific verses in the Bible that are not being followed at all today by American Christians. Why are American Christians so concerned with homosexuality and not concerned at all with the planks in their own eyes?
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» left by Anonymous (314 days 1 hour ago.)
if man's interpretation of the Bible is indeed wrong, then how many millions of people have suffered at the hands of those who abide by it's every word?
what if the line was "two men should not lie to each other, instead of man interpreting it to say, two men shall not lie with each other?
terry, when my mom died, i was devastated. i read every near death experience book there was, and they confirmed what i instinctually have felt since i was a kid-God loves all his children, no matter what their vice, or sexual preference. there is scientific evidence that a gene is responsible-a gene that God created. how can we then condemn God for His choice to create them as such?
wouldn't it be something if these men and women who must live lives of hardship and pain, were put on Earth to teach us to love all, and accept all, and that is their cross to bear?
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» left by JL from US (313 days 21 hours ago.)
Reader Rating: 3.5 out of 5
Interpretation and translation are two different things. The Bible says what it says and God will impress the reader with what that person needs to know. But, you have to read and study to learn and know.
Why would God make someone gay? I don't think he does. Why would he make someone so different from what His Word says with no chance of change? That is contrary to His nature. People, on the other hand have a sinful nature and the sin we chose to do is based on our own hearts and desires. If it feels good, justify and do it doesn't make it right. God has given his Word. We would be wise to listen.
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» left by Susan Thom (8,304)
Susan Thom
(313 days 19 hours ago.)

i believe we ourselves, will go through a review when we die, and go through all we put others through, and see how they felt. again, if you know any gay people, they talk different, and sound different, and make different movements. they don't choose to do so, they were born that way, and if they were born that way, then God made them that way. God's word was to love one another, and i am listening.

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» left by Anonymous (313 days 21 hours ago.)
Reader Rating: 3 out of 5
Genetics controls things like species, skin color, and height. I cannot change anything in my life that has been coded into my genes. I cannot turn myself into a dog, or grow five inches, or become black-skinned. My genes determine those aspects of who I am.

People claim things like alcoholism, or being gay, or pedophilia are also genetically determined. If so, there would be no recovering alcoholics, no people leaving the gay lifestyle, no individuals ceasing their sexual advances on children. And yet we see this happening all the time. If change can occur, it cannot be a genetic issue. (You have written another article about being a recovering alcoholic, so I would think you would understand this concept.)

Science cannot show me the gene that "makes" people gay; nor can they show me that "flipping the switch" on that gene turns gay people into straight people or vice versa. Science brags that it is all about facts and proof. Well, science needs to either prove the theory or shut up about it.

Finally, if God makes people gay and then condemns them for it, he has some serious mental issues that need to be addressed. I don't think that's the case, God being who he is, so there must be another answer. I'm sorry, Susan, but your assumptions are incorrect here, and I will have to disagree with you.
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» left by Anonymous (313 days 19 hours ago.)
dear anon,
my assumptions are that God created us all, and some He chose to create white, some black, some female, some male, and some gay.
He's just sitting back watching to see what His other children will say and do about a group of people that are different. people leaving gay, just like a college student leaving college, when their parents had it all planned out for them, but they realized it wasn't right for them.
do you know gay people? do you see that they actually look and talk differently? how do you explain that? they were created that way. so why would God then not allow that one group of people, to have sex with each other?
and who should care? if that's what makes God angry, then that is not the God i believe in. the compassionate and loving God wants me to embrace all His creatures, and not judge anyone else.
nobody mentions the thousands of Catholic priests that are gay. Is there God different? are they allowed to molest young boys and ruin their lives forever?
are older people judged because they don't have sex? then why should gay people be judged because they have sex with each other-it's just an act, it's not the way they conduct their lives, and take care of their mothers and feed the poor, and whatever other good things they do that far exceed how they have sex. and if one has a child that is gay-what do they tell them, that they can never in their life have sex bacause of it? i can't see the God i believe in putting thatkind of sentence on one of his children, just because his other children don't get it-we are all created equal. and we all have the right to live life the way God intended for us, not the way society does.

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» left by James P Krehbiel (1,579)
James P Krehbiel
(313 days 15 hours ago.)

Reader Rating: 5 out of 5
Susan,
Great article. I don't know how I missed this one! Terry tries to condescendingly tell you how to think about the Bible. Terry also condescendingly compares kleptomaniacs to those who are gay. That's a stretch and is insulting. Kleptomaniacs weren't born that way. Terry, GAYS WERE BORN THAT WAY! Obviously you have had no contact with the gay community to make such a statement that they should remain celebate. Give it up Terry. Your judgments are shameful. In your literalness you miss the spirit of the Gospel accounts.
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» left by JL from US (312 days 2 hours ago.)
I have to agree that Terry's comments are very direct, but I don't think he is wrong. just needs to add a little tact. At the risk of turning these comments into a genetic discussion, (oh wait, it's already there) I've been doing a little research. First, there has to be an absolute somewhere or you might as well throw your hands in the air and walk away. What is the absolute? Next, LeVay, the one famous for reporting his findings has not been able to replicate them. You can't, scientifically, test something once and say it is so. Why couldn't he replicate the his findings? All but one had died of AIDS.
It has been suggested, but not researched thoroughly, that because our brains are able to adapt to a point, could it be that living a homosexual lifestyle or giving in to those temptations may be responsible for the results of LeVay's study?
We were made male and female complete with parts. And even then, we are to use restraint.
For the record, my nephew is gay. He has chosen that lifestyle because he likes it. He knows it is not normal and he knows it is wrong, but he is having fun and loving the attention. It is his choice. We get along well and I don't love him any less for what he does.
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» left by Anonymous (312 days 2 hours ago.)
hi JL,
thanks for coming back. i also read Levay's information:A large body of evidence is growing that points to sexual orientation being genetically determined.
it will happen, and i believe it has, i remember watching something about it on TV. no one wants to accept it, but there is a great deal of proof to genetics playing a role.
i know of kids that were confused, and tried different sexes in partners. maybe they have more of the gentics than heterosexual, but not as much as homosexual, which leaves them in the middle.
From LeVay's report:In 1991 a small, three page preliminary study published by Simon LeVay from the Salk institute caused mass hysteria by hypothesizing, with supporting data, that gay men have a smaller INAH 3 nucleus of the hypothalamus than heterosexual
The size of the INAH 3 nucleus would seem to be a product of the expression of the genes that may also cause the expression of a homosexual orientation. The fact that they are smaller in gay men than heterosexual would point to some kind of linkage, at least, with the cause for a sexual orientation.

it doesn't really matter, only as a point to those who judge, and do not sympathize with a group of people who have been put together differently, and must live that lifestyle, while being shunned and even hurt by society.
if there is a gene that causes blindness, do we badger and recount and put down the blind person?
we are all people. sex is sex. millions don't even remember having it the next day, so why focus on a physical act that everything in nature does, whether they are gay or not. as long as those two people love each other, i say, who cares? i wouldn't want that lifestyle, but i don't condemn and judge those who don't want it, but have to deal with for a lifetime.
and those who do want it, but must face society. thank you for your comment,
best regards,
sue thom
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» left by JL from US (312 days ago.)
Hey Sue, This is getting interesting. The problem is LeVay also found hetrosexual men with small INAH 3 and homosexual men with large INAH 3 nuclei. Reseachers also wonder if the difference came about after homosexual behavior. Sinful behavior messes up lives. It doesn't matter what the sin is, lies, adultry, fornication, gossip. People are hurt.
I am not judging people; we are all sinners, myself included, but God extends grace on His terms. OK--here comes the Bible quote. You've probably been expecting it. 1 Corinthians 6, verses 9-11(NIV) says: Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy not drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdon of God. And that is what some of you were (past tense). But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (end)
Please keep in mind this is written to believers, those who accepted the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. That point being made, that we can all change. It goes on to say (1 Corinthians) to flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. (end)Also, know that God sent his son for everyone...none of us are without guilt in and of ourselves. We can only rely on God to change us. He made the way to change. None of us can do it on our own. Maybe that is why so many say they can't change? Ha--maybe I should write an article.
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» left by Anonymous (311 days 19 hours ago.)
hi jl,
you do write well and you should write an article. all the adjectives in the line of scripture, i don't even believe existed when the Bible was being constructed. again, wha if God said man shall not lie to man, and men interpeted that as to say men shall not lie with men? i believe in a loving God
and a God who uses His chosen ones to teach the rest of us, such as Ryan White, or the little boy mattie who shared so much goodness and acceptance in his short life, or homosexuals, or black, or white. how else would we learn to love all and accept all? it would be easy if everybody was the same, with the same conduct, behavior, concepts and morals. i taught my kids how not to be prejudiced, and it was sometimes unnerving with friends coming over with red hair and purple hair and chains and piercings and weird clothes, but i talked to them and they kind and caring and funny and i give them credit being so, while living in a world that condemns them simply because they are different, or choose to live a different lifestyle.
there are married couples who haven't had relations in years. does that mean they don't love one another? should they be shunned? why does sex have to be an issue with anyone? it is a private experience and who are we to say anything about the fact that some people feel the urge for the same sex and some go for it, and some stay celibate. the gay people i have known have said they prayed to God that they weren't, and fought it for years. they told no one. this was not an exciting thing for them, it was a curse. my point exactly. who would choose to live a cursed life, except the exceptions? and there will always be exceptions, but you have to stick to the rule, and the majority.
now, go write a story,
best regards,
sue
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» left by Anonymous (311 days 15 hours ago.)
Reader Rating: 2 out of 5
People have condemned Christians for years because they use their belief system as a crutch. "Don't confuse me with the facts; this is what I believe." I see the author doing the same thing here. In addition, any criticism or comment that conflicts with the author's belief system is met with "Stop judging people." This is the realm of fantasy, not reality. Be big enough to admit that maybe you don't have all the answers, and just because you feel a certain way does not make it law.
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» left by Susan Thom (8,304)
Susan Thom
(311 days 5 hours ago.)

dear anon,
you are exactly right, i don't have all the answers, and what i believe doesn't make it law.
but i do have my right to believe, as you do. if someone is honest with me and treats me well and is sympathetic when i need an ear to talk to, and is responsible and has integrity, and doesn't hurt anybody, i could care less what they do in their bedroom. and i personally do not believe God cares either, but that is my belief.
thank you for reading and commenting,
i appreciate it.
best regards,
sue thom
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» left by JL from US (311 days 15 hours ago.)
Hey Sue, The majority is often wrong. Look at our society now. As far as the adjectives, they existed in the language of the day. When God was talking about liars, he made it clear. When he talked about sexual sins, he made it clear. He didn't just mention it in passing. He knew it would be our undoing in this world. In fact, he destroyed 2 cities because of it. But, the cool thing is, God didn't condemn anyone. Just the opposite. He provided a way to be acceptable in a Holy God's sight, but it had to be done His way. To be forgiven, to change. That was the reason Jesus came to earth, and his mission was to show us how to show mercy, God's mercy and then to die willingly to pay the penalty for the sin that every one of us commits. The thing is, telling a lie is no different than lying with someone you are not married to. It is just the consequences are different, even in our society. God is a loving God, but if he has no standards, what makes him God, all powerful and worthy of our worship? I don't think I'd want to belong to a weak god...he would be no big deal. What would be the reason for a loving God that was not just? God is love, but we have distorted it.
I have written before, but am better at other things. But, who knows?
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» left by Susan Thom (8,304)
Susan Thom
(311 days 4 hours ago.)

hi JL,
i still think your writing is very good. if you ever write a story, make sure you let me know, i would love to read it.
my background for feeling the way i do is near death experience books. i even have one of children, all over the world, who were clinically dead for a period of time, and came back to tell what they had seen and heard, and all the stories match; God is a loving God. it's people who put the labels on and misinterpret and treat each other as lower than, if they have an affliction, or are born a certain way. there were 8 million reported cases when i read these books 14 years ago. our review is what sets us right, and then we move on to do what God intends for us in Heaven. i have no proof, it's just the way i believe. i will have to atone for that if i'm wrong, but i am willing to take that chance.
thank you so much for reading, and commenting,
i honestly appreciate it,
best regards,
sue thom
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» left by James P Krehbiel (1,579)
James P Krehbiel
(309 days 18 hours ago.)

Reader Rating: 5 out of 5
Jill,
Your nephew is gay and he has that identity because he likes it, is having fun and enjoys the attention he is getting? People don't play gay, they either are or they aren't. What you have stated is inaccurate and not a reflection of a genuine gay identity.
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» left by JL from US (309 days 17 hours ago.)
Hey James,
It is JL not Jill, but I figure you are responding to me. He is in the gay lifestyle. I'm not a psychologist, but I can tell you what I see. He even has taken on feminine gestures and has a boyfriend. You already know my stance on choice vs gay gene, so there is no reason to go there, except to say that if there really was a gay gene, they would have no hope to change. Have a good evening. I've enjoyed reading your stuff here again.
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» left by Terry Mitchell (2,295)
Terry Mitchell
(308 days 4 hours ago.)

Reader Rating: 4.5 out of 5
James, you admonish me for trying to "to condescendingly tell [Susan] how to think about the Bible." Then you turn right around and tell me, "In your literalness you miss the spirit of the Gospel accounts." So now who's condescendingly telling someone how to think about the Bible? I've found that although most liberals like yourself tend to be quite preachy in nature, most of them fail to practice what they preach.

Now about remaing celebate being such a burden, it is really so bad? People have to deal with far worse things every day. What about those who are born with severe deformities or missing limbs or those who have to deal with life-threatening illnesses like cancer?

And I still don't buy that "gay gene" boloney. At least one commenter pointed to certain physical manifestations (the way gays talk, walk, their mannerisms, movements, etc.) as proof of a gay gene. Hogwash! Everyone has observed those whom they were sure "could not" be gay because of the lack of these physical characteristics. But, despite all of this, you eventually found out they were gay. The late Rock Hudson comes to mind here. Then there were others you "just knew" were gay (because of having all these characteristics) but you later found that they were as straight as a arrow.

Bet let's suppose just for argument's sake that there was acually a gay gene. Would that change my mind about gays needing to remain celebate? Absolutely not! God has a right to create people any way He wants to and then hold them to a different standard because of it. That's right, it's not a misprint. I have Biblical support for my position here. It's found in Romans 9:20-22 (KJV) and it reads as follows:

"Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction..."

You liberals ought to try actually reading the Bible once in while. It would do you a lot of good.
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Article added to SearchWarp.com on Wednesday, November 28, 2007
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